This was one free-wheeling discussion! Seriously fun and seriously high-energy.
Thanks again to all the panel members – and to all the SL Business Communicators who made the discussion of the Second Life Entertainment Market research study such a valuable mix of perspectives.
Seriously delinquent on my part; seriously in default on all blogging best practices, I am finally posting the transcript and slides (real life is so demanding sometimes…).
Thanks to JimmyJet Fossett for posting photos and so much more timely than I!
Introductions
[9:10] Znetlady: Shall we get started then...
[9:10] Pebbles Hannya: OK
[9:10] Znetlady: We're here to chat a bit about the just released SL Entertainment Market study. It's no big surprise to most of you that people spend a lot of avatar time on entertainment activities here in SL.
[9:10] Znetlady: Please ask any questions you have - and I'll leave it open to ask them in chat unless it gets too crazy and then I'll ask you to IM me.
[9:10] Znetlady: So we have maximum time, let me do a quick introduction of our panelists, and then we'll get a briefing from Market Truths on just what their study found.
[9:11] Znetlady: First, we have Pebbles Hannya, president of Market Truths
[9:11] Znetlady: Foresti Svaro/ Giff Constable with Electric Sheep Company
[9:11] Znetlady: Ethan therian / Ian Teepoot, Infinite Vision Media
[9:11] Znetlady: Link Pippen, Galveston Island
[9:12] Znetlady: Troy McLuhan, Director, SL International Spaceflight Museum
[9:12] Znetlady: Gary Goldhammer/G24khamr Goodfellow, Edelman Interactive Services
[9:12] Znetlady: So we will have the viewpoints of a couple of "entertainment destinations" in SL, developers who create such destinations, and Mr. Goodfellow will give us both a client perspective and a communicators perspective.
[9:12] Znetlady: And, all of you who have your own thoughts and questions.
[9:13] Znetlady: Let's start with Pebbles, briefing us on the findings of the SL Entertainments stud.
[9:13] Znetlady: study - Pebbles...
And We Begin
[9:13] Pebbles Hannya: OK thanks Znetlady.
[9:13] Znetlady: Pebbles does have slides so adjust you view to see the screen.
[9:14] Pebbles Hannya: Since Chester had some lag problems before I'll just quickly mention that our island here is part of a large business park that Depo has created, so feel free to have a look around later and talk to Chester if you have any questions aboutthe park.
[9:14] Pebbles Hannya: Yes, I will be speaking about the slides behind me, so you might want to zoom in on them.
[9:14] Pebbles Hannya: I'll also keep my overview relatively brief so there is lots of time to hear from the panel and from all of you.
[9:15] Pebbles Hannya: As you can see, some of the things we wanted to investigate were how much time people spend on various forms of entertainment…
[9:15] Komuso Tokugawa: like...gambling?
[9:15] Pebbles Hannya: … and how often (during they past year) they have engaged in specific forms of entertainment.
[9:15] Cher Harrington: lol
[9:16] Robbie Kiama: cruel
[9:16] Pebbles Hannya: Komuso's point is interesting...
[9:16] JimmyJet Fossett: Sploder Ball!
[9:16] Pebbles Hannya: The time measures include any time the resident spends on anything he or she finds entertaining, but the specific forms of entertainment we looked at did not include gambling or adult entertainment.
[9:16] Pebbles Hannya: So leaving out gambling seems a bit prescient now ;)
[9:16] TrajicK Chaplin: true
[9:16] Pebbles Hannya: As always, one of the things we were interested in investigating is linkages between what people do here and what they do in RL.
[9:17] Pebbles Hannya: When those matched, we wanted to find out whether people prefer to participate here or in RL.
[9:17] Pebbles Hannya: When they didn’t we were interested in finding out why they haven’t done things in RL that they have done here or whether they would be interested in trying things here that they have done in RL (but not here).
[9:17] Pebbles Hannya: As you can see, the people we surveyed spend a lot of time on SL entertainment.
[9:18] Robbie Kiama: please don't flip the slides so fast
[9:18] Pebbles Hannya: As noted in the footnote, the results may not translate to all SL residents.
[9:18] Robbie Kiama: they take a while to load
[9:18] Pebbles Hannya: Oh, sorry -- does anyone need me to go back to any of the previous slides?
[9:18] Fabio Medby: can we have copies of the slides?
[9:19] Pebbles Hannya: Yes Fabio, either e-mail me or maybe we can put them on the Business Communicators' site Znetlady?
[9:19] Znetlady: Of course.
[9:19] Komuso Tokugawa: quick question: do you have an actual breakdown of the panel and participants numbers wise?
[9:19] Pebbles Hannya: Participants in this particular project yes Kumoso. We don't reveal the breakdown of the panel as a whole, but the sample used for this particular project was...
[9:20] Pebbles Hannya: (not pausing for drama -- just looking it up) :)
[9:20] Link Pippen: :)
[9:20] Pebbles Hannya: 239 respondents...
[9:20] JimmyJet Fossett: Drum roll . . .
[9:20] Pebbles Hannya: Median age = 35
[9:20] Pebbles Hannya: 45% male, 55% female
[9:21] Komuso Tokugawa: ty
[9:21] Pebbles Hannya: Median time in SL = 198 days
[9:21] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: elf or normal?
[9:21] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[9:21] Komuso Tokugawa: lol
[9:21] Cher Harrington: lol
[9:21] Pebbles Hannya: 48% US, 17% UK
[9:21] Austen Scanlan: Question: How we the panelists selected. Was there an incentive involved?
[9:22] JimmyJet Fossett: And did they come to Market Truths for surveys, or done in different locations or methods?
[9:22] Pebbles Hannya: They were drawn from our research panel, and given a small (L$) thank you for their time.
[9:22] Pebbles Hannya: Surveyed via the Web
[9:22] Pebbles Hannya: Invitation delivered in SL
[9:23] Justine Babii is Offline
[9:23] Pebbles Hannya: Perhaps I should continue and then we can come back to other methodology questions.
[9:23] Znetlady: Please.
[9:23] JimmyJet Fossett: Okay, thanks
[9:23] Pebbles Hannya: There is also a methodology section in the actual report.
[9:23] Pebbles Hannya: Anyway, so we were talking about total time spent on entertainment...
[9:24] Pebbles Hannya: Obviously the number of participants in SL is still not huge, but it does make me wonder what it means for TV if more people start spending time in virtual worlds and the average time in world holds around this level.
[9:24] Smiddy Smails: Interesting that the number of US SL residents is so high for the study, but significantly lower if you look at the total SL signups broken down by geo
[9:24] Pebbles Hannya: I’d be interested in hearing thoughts from members of the panel and everyone else about that later.
[9:24] Komuso Tokugawa: tv is already whining about the web drawing eyeballs
[9:24] Komuso Tokugawa: has been for ages
[9:24] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: good
[9:25] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[9:25] Pebbles Hannya: Smiddy since we have a minimum SL age requirement of 30 days membership in our panel lags SL sign up demographics a bit.
[9:26] Pebbles Hannya: But also so far everything we've done has been in English and we choose our panel based partly on where are clients are (primarily US and UK), so that partly explains the percentages from the English speaking countries.
[9:26] Pebbles Hannya: We did find that what people do in SL is linked with what they do in RL…
[9:26] Pebbles Hannya: Both in terms of frequency of participation and also the types of entertainment a given person participates in.
[9:26] Pebbles Hannya: In particular, we asked about over 50 activities (there is a lot of detail in the report about these specific activities), and then used statistical procedures (details in the report about those too) to group them into categories based on whether people who participate in one also tend to participate in another…
[9:27] Pebbles Hannya: For example, for SL activities, things like skating, surfing, and scuba diving are all grouped together in an “action” category.
[9:27] Pebbles Hannya: The specific components of the categories are not identical in all cases, but there are correlations between the categories of RL and SL activities people are drawn to.
[9:27] Pebbles Hannya: In particular, people drawn toward action-oriented activities here also tend to be in RL. Same for solitary, social, and discovery-oriented activities (these are things like seeing new places, meeting new people).
[9:28] Pebbles Hannya: Meeting new people is in fact one of the things people most enjoy about entertainment in SL (often the entertainment activities just provide the vehicle for that).
[9:28] Pebbles Hannya: They also enjoy entertainment here because it doesn’t carry with it some constraints found in RL.
[9:28] Pebbles Hannya: And they enjoy the fact that this context makes it easy to experiment and learn.
[9:28] Pebbles Hannya: With that I think I’ll turn it back to Znetlady and the panel, but I’ll be happy to answer any questions during the discussion, and the full report is available in our office or on sl.markettruths.com if anyone wants all of the details.
[9:28] Znetlady: Thanks, Pebbles.
[9:29] Robbie Kiama: thanks - that was great insight
[9:29] Znetlady: I'll ask the panelists to jump in
[9:29] Znetlady: but one quetion to kick this off.
[9:30] Znetlady: It seems that learning is a big component of the popular activities.
[9:30] Znetlady: I find that very intriguing - that we call learning an entertainment activity.
[9:30] Ethan Therian: Well, this panel itself being a case in point.
[9:30] Pebbles Hannya: That was one of the interesting things that came out both in the focus groups we did prior to that survey and after...
[9:31] Znetlady: Troy, maybe you can jump in with a comment on that.
[9:31] Pebbles Hannya: A lot of these activities do several things at the same time -- have a fun experience, meet people, and learn all at the same time.
[9:31] Robbie Kiama: Good point Ethan
[9:31] Pebbles Hannya: In fact, Troy may want to comment on that since that's very much what they offer.
[9:31] Link Pippen: Certainly what our 'plan' in Galveston is.
[9:32] Znetlady: How so, Link?
[9:32] Link Pippen: Primary purpose of our sim is to promote tourism to a RL destination. And, attempt to teach a bit as well.
[9:32] Link Pippen: Thru historic walking tours. Video. Podcasts.
[9:33] Troy McLuhan: That sounds neat. Is it open?
[9:33] Link Pippen: But we also use entertainment to draw people in and interact. In hopes that it'll spark interest in the sim. And the RL place.
[9:33] Komuso Tokugawa: I bought a great windchime in galveston once!
[9:33] Znetlady: Yes, please, Troy.
[9:33] Link Pippen: Yes - live.
[9:33] Link Pippen: :)
[9:34] JimmyJet Fossett: Link Galveston is nice, and looks like you have reg. entertainment. Does this create regular repeat visitors?
[9:34] Link Pippen: So, so far so good.
[9:34] Znetlady: Troy, what about the Spaceflight Museum as entertainment/learning?
[9:34] Link Pippen: Absolutely. People love it.
[9:34] Forseti Svarog: I think it makes complete sense. People are here to explore a new world which means their minds are open to discovering new experiences. Of course "learning" can be quite broad. You can learn about yourself, about others, or more formal learning such as when the apollo rockets launched.
[9:34] Troy McLuhan: Yes the Spaceflight museum - who knew?
[9:34] Link Pippen: We get many, many repeat guests. And we really make an effort to offer music of all types, from all around the world. Again, to introduce new audiences to the destination.
[9:35] Forseti Svarog: I *love* the spaceflight museum
[9:35] Znetlady: Gary, from a client perspective - do they take "learning" into account in their strategies?
[9:35] Znetlady: Sorry, that is G24K.
[9:35] Ethan Therian: And virtual worlds allow for a unique medium in which learning can take place. However, we have to avoid falling into the trap of either duplicating methods that are better served in other media.
[9:36] G24khamr Goodfellow: no, not really -- I think clients are still feeling their way on that.
[9:36] G24khamr Goodfellow: What
[9:36] Ethan Therian: Or in which 3D communal space offers no particular advantage.
[9:36] G24khamr Goodfellow: is interesting in engagement as a form of entertainment -- clients still view entertainment as a
[9:37] G24khamr Goodfellow: passive, not active, enterprise. SL changes that, makes you part of the experience of "entertainmnet"
[9:37] Link Pippen: absolutely.
[9:37] Ethan Therian: Yes. Exactly.
[9:37] TrajicK Chaplin: What I've learned being here a short time is that since the learning can be inteactive (ie. building, scripting, clothes creation) I'm not really surprised that Learning is considered as entertaining..
[9:37] Ethan Therian: Most things that can be duplicated outworld would be "passive" channels.
[9:38] Pebbles Hannya: Interesting point G24 -- one of the things we found people were really interested in seeing more of in SL were those more active forms of entertainment
[9:38] Forseti Svarog: I think it very much depends on the company or brand and what their strengths are. There are many who are quite interested in learning -- take a look at what Sundance has been doing with their "Green" events educating on environmental issues.
[9:38] Forseti Svarog: it's a potential arrow in your quiver for engagement, but not one everyone will or should use
[9:39] Ethan Therian: A good example is the idea of watching videos. That is essentially passive. I don't need to log-in, for example, to watch my avatar watch a film.
[9:39] Forseti Svarog: yes but you do need to login to have a social video experience
[9:39] Znetlady: Forseti, do you think though if companies thought more about the motivation of "learning" it would improve their strategies?
[9:39] Ethan Therian: But a great example of twisting that passive activity into an active one has been the MST3K events, where the 3D communal space makes this passive activity participatory...
[9:40] Ethan Therian: but as a group you are collectively heckling and trying to come up with zingers with your friends and receive the instant feedback from that.
[9:40] Mushroom Balut: that's especially the case now with voice
[9:40] Forseti Svarog: i think the bigger problem Znet is that companies aren't really paying enough attention to their strengths vs weaknesses right now but that's a *big* topic :)
[9:40] Mushroom Balut: chat has become the sidebar to the voice event
[9:41] Ethan Therian: The same principles are applicable in education. For example streamed lectures vs. inworld panels. This panel is somewhat participatory because the attendees can "talk back" to us, wherein if this was a video feed, this wouldn't necessarily be the case.
[9:41] JimmyJet Fossett: Bet Forseti would have great insights on all of that :-)
[9:42] Znetlady: So, it seems we have "social" is a big requirement and the involvement of learning seems to be a big driver.
[9:42] Forseti Svarog: When I think back to our major league baseball events, that was great entertainment. it worked because is was social yes
[9:42] Forseti Svarog: people were watching the game on "tv" in here yes, but laughing, joking, talking trash
[9:42] Forseti Svarog: we're social creatures
[9:42] Forseti Svarog: it makes things richer
[9:43] Forseti Svarog: it's why dancing is so popular here -- it's a social lubricant
[9:43] Znetlady: If you all have a question of the panel, please jump in.
[9:43] Ethan Therian: I agree that it depends on the company, and that an important point for corporate and institutional presences to think and rethink their approach to both involving the guest and education.
[9:44] TrajicK Chaplin: I'd like to know what ideas the panel leaning towards with voice in the entertainment realm
[9:44] Ethan Therian: For the Weather Channel, for example, expressing who they were, providing value-added experiential content to the sim, and integrating the educational component to the actual activities was a priority.
[9:44] Troy McLuhan looks forward to live stand-up comedy with voice
[9:44] Znetlady: Thanks Trajick
[9:44] Komuso Tokugawa: learning should be a natural by product of entertainment, not the core design goal,..,EDUTAINMENT anyone?
[9:44] Austen Scanlan: Personally, I think that there is a lot to be learned from the application of what is called: "Serious Games."
[9:45] Kiwini Oe: Is there any info on time spent being a producer of entertainment vs. consumer of entertainment in SL vs RL. Do people who don't normally "entertain" in RL find an outlet in SL?
[9:45] Forseti Svarog: i don't hail voice as the end all be all. I think it is extremely useful -- and troy points out a great example -- we enjoy hearing other people laugh -- but I also think people are more shy with voice and text in SL has an amazing way of letting the introvert be an extrovert
[9:45] Ethan Therian: Yes. Epcot Center -- made by perhaps the most competent virtual reality company in the world, Disney -- is a perfect example of experiental, involving edutainment.
[9:45] Znetlady: Let's get a couple of reactions to voice in SL, and then we'll take
[9:45] Znetlady: Komuso and Kiwini's questions.
[9:45] Znetlady: Link, what about voice?
[9:46] Pebbles Hannya: Well Kiwini, things like buildings, scripting, clothing creation were really of interest to a lot of people -- so in a sense, that's producing your own entertainment.
[9:46] Link Pippen: I absolutely believe it'll play a major role in Galveston. Though everyone I've asked who's visiting our sim hasn't seemed to excited. :)
[9:47] Link Pippen: There's a fear of voice in SL, i sense.
[9:47] Link Pippen: People like the anonymity of typing.
[9:47] Znetlady: Troy, what about you?
[9:47] Austen Scanlan: I believe it's time for a stand-alone tool set that's as easy to use as sketch-up. Use that as model for Sl real world interaction.
[9:47] Znetlady: How will voice change the experience at the Spaceflight?
[9:47] Troy McLuhan knows better than to jump into the voice versus text debate
[9:47] JimmyJet Fossett: RIght Link, but was at Cisco event yesterday, and think voice would have made for a better presentation experience
[9:47] TrajicK Chaplin: I think you're right link.. I'm an Emcee and we've been working on Hip hop battels with vioce.. some are timid to use it
[9:47] Da Etchegaray: part of why i think SL is such a great community is the intimacy that i fear will not survive voice. Inhibitions.
[9:48] Link Pippen: EXACTLY.
[9:48] Pebbles Hannya: And I think it has elements of inconvenience too. It's easier to participate with text in an office or when the rest of your household is sleeping (as mine is now) than it is with voice.
[9:48] Forseti Svarog: like all things, voice is a communication tool that works for some purposes and not all
[9:48] Link Pippen: I've already decided - - if I could have it today? No way.
[9:48] Link Pippen: Have no interest.
[9:48] Link Pippen: (For me)
[9:49] Da Etchegaray: maybe the norm remains type, but at least there is a voice option.
[9:49] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: i think the voice spoils
[9:49] Znetlady: It seems the brand community has pushed for it? Do you find that Ethan and Forseti?
[9:49] Ethan Therian: True. From a development perspective, voice will also simplify the creation of rich experiences, though, bypassing the need for SAM servers, etc, thus allowing for more events where voice adds to the mix.
[9:49] Znetlady: G24K?
[9:50] Forseti Svarog: Znet, i think the business community has pushed for it because it makes workplace collaboration MUCH easier. I know that from personal experience. text is inefficient.
[9:50] Pebbles Hannya: Will it make events even more laggy Ethan and Forseti?
[9:50] Link Pippen: Yes, in that use - absolutely I see the benefit.
[9:50] Znetlady: It is...
[9:50] Austen Scanlan: Voice is nice, but can't we talk a bit more about improving user involvment.
[9:50] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: true
[9:50] Komuso Tokugawa: voice in SL is insecure making it inappropriate for sensitive b2b collab tho
[9:50] G24khamr Goodfellow: the overall experience of sl needs to improve, for sure, it's not just about voice
[9:50] Link Pippen: I agree.
[9:51] Forseti Svarog: I was just at an event -- the Paper Couture fashion show, that had some on voice and some on text. I think both were having a great time
[9:51] Komuso Tokugawa: *unsecure
[9:51] Forseti Svarog: I was listening on voice but typing in text... but for those that wanted to chatter away in voice I think it enriched the expereince
[9:51] Komuso Tokugawa: that's an understatement G24K!
[9:51] Navillus Batra: Pebbles, you mentioned that people were interested in seeing more active forms of entertainment in SL. Were there any specifics forms or activities in need of development that your research uncovered?
[9:51] Forseti Svarog: of the year :D
[9:52] Znetlady: Let's get back to entertainment.
[9:52] Znetlady: Kiwini's questions again: Is there any info on time spent being a producer of entertainment vs. consumer of entertainment in SL vs RL. Do people who don't normally "entertain" in RL find an outlet in SL?
[9:52] Znetlady: The concept of creation as entertainment.
[9:52] Komuso Tokugawa: it's play znet
[9:52] Pebbles Hannya: Yes, there's more detail on that in the report, but a couple of areas people were interested in seeing more of were live drama and live comedy...
[9:52] Komuso Tokugawa: pure play
[9:53] Pebbles Hannya: ... and also lots of people wanting to learn more about how to build things, make clothes, etc.
[9:53] Forseti Svarog: right now, technical limitations hold back so much of this stuff... which is why sports were so low on the list
[9:54] Pebbles Hannya: I think another reason sports might have been low (team sports in particular) is the need for prior planning...
[9:54] TrajicK Chaplin: Forseti what are the current problems with sports in sl?
[9:54] Forseti Svarog: HA! get me started?
[9:54] Komuso Tokugawa: it's like a 1:9 content creator:consumer ratio in sl right? something like that?
[9:54] Troy McLuhan: The Lindens (e.g. Philip) talk about the statistics for time spent on producing vs. consuming. There's still a lot of time spent producing
[9:54] Forseti Svarog: the physics engine is a HUGE one obviously
[9:54] Pebbles Hannya: ... what a lot of people seemed to enjoy was just the sponteneity of doing things, meeting people, when they wanted to whereas something like a football game in SL would require quite a lot of organization, problems with time zones potentially, etc.
[9:55] Ethan Therian: A 1:9 ratio is actually a very high number of producers per consumer.
[9:55] TrajicK Chaplin: Ahh tru pebbles
[9:55] Chester Orbit: we're working with the motor racing guys
[9:55] Forseti Svarog: and troy, one thing missed by those stats is also "services" -- like throwing a party or hosting a club or doing a poetry reading
[9:55] Forseti Svarog: that's a different form of production
[9:55] Troy McLuhan: Good point Forseti - I organize a lot of talks. But that doesn't show up as "time spent with my Edit window open" at Linden Lab
[9:56] Navillus Batra: lol
[9:56] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[9:56] Komuso Tokugawa: I'm trying to recall the study on the ratio, someone did it ,,, maybe LL
[9:56] Ethan Therian: I believe that competitive, non-team sporting events have tons of potential. Such as speed trials or racing, where you don't have to necessarily to real-time comparison, but have leader boards and other asynchronous competitive elements.
[9:56] TrajicK Chaplin: Thats sick Ethan
[9:56] TrajicK Chaplin: lol
[9:57] Ethan Therian: But lets face it, a streamed world will probably never have the physics robustness etc., of a game MMORPG where much of the resources are delivered via disk...
[9:57] Znetlady: I personally find it interesting that none of the "stats" looks at community activities like your discussions Troy, yet it is one of the nost popular activities here.
[9:57] Ethan Therian: I think it behooves all creators to focus on what such platforms DON'T deliver particularly well.
[9:57] Forseti Svarog: Ethan -- i agree with you. single person competitive sports like races are workable now and people enjoy them
[9:57] Forseti Svarog: and non-sports based competitions like tringo or trivia
[9:57] Znetlady: Okay, so I'm going into dangerous territory here...
[9:58] Forseti Svarog: yes have to play to the technology's strengths
[9:58] Forseti Svarog: and not try to force something
[9:58] Znetlady: If action is one of the most popular activity categories, how does that correlate to SL as a "game"?
[9:58] G24khamr Goodfellow: ah, but isn't life a game? :-)
[9:59] Cher Harrington: lol
[9:59] Robbie Kiama: :)
[9:59] Forseti Svarog: exactly Gary :)
[9:59] TrajicK Chaplin: The Matrix Has you NEo
[9:59] Pebbles Hannya: It's the forms of entertainment people are drawn to really and what you're drawn to within this world or game or whatever you want to call it.
[9:59] Ethan Therian: You jest, but kind of true in many ways.
[9:59] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[9:59] Robbie Kiama: then - we are the avatars, and who is behind ? :)|
[9:59] Ethan Therian: :)
[9:59] G24khamr Goodfellow: there is no spoon....
[9:59] Komuso Tokugawa: woof
[9:59] Robbie Kiama: hehe
[9:59] Pebbles Hannya: If you're motivated to do things that involve interacting with a lot of people in RL the same tends to be true here
[9:59] Forseti Svarog: that points to why I thought this study was so important. It draws clarity to the fact that people = their avatars
[9:59] Forseti Svarog: doesn't mean you act exactly the same
[10:00] Forseti Svarog: but the avatar is not some alien 3rd party creation that you can't understand
[10:00] Pebbles Hannya: Conversely if you prefer more solitary forms of RL entertainment, the same also tends to be true here.
[10:00] Znetlady: Yes, Forseti...
[10:00] Znetlady: I think you hit on a very important issue.
[10:00] Pebbles Hannya: Exactly. Same brain so same underlying motivations.
[10:00] Komuso Tokugawa: you talking to me forseti? I resemble that remark!
[10:00] Forseti Svarog: hahaha komuso :D
[10:00] Cher Harrington: LOL
[10:00] Troy McLuhan wonders if that is a bias introduced by the methodology. The immersionists / role-players in SL aren't likely to be interested in doing a survey
[10:01] TrajicK Chaplin: Znet/Pebbles I'd really like to find out how many people actually think of SL as a game after 30 days
[10:01] Ethan Therian: SL tends to bring out a magnified version of yourself...
[10:01] Ethan Therian: and its a pure mind projection.
[10:01] Forseti Svarog: that might be true troy, but I think the role players are a minority. I think SL is not quite pure fantasy as some would portray it
[10:01] Pebbles Hannya: Possibly Troy, though we go to great lengths to reach into different communities within SL.
[10:01] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: a subatomic particle projection
[10:01] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[10:01] Robbie Kiama: lol Hand
[10:02] Pebbles Hannya: Even with that it's true that the most hard-core of immersion people may not be interested.
[10:02] Ethan Therian: A freiend of mine can't keep his avatar still. He's a virtual fidgeter. Yet outworld, he is physically still. He always expressed that his avatar was more a reflection of his mental state than physical.
[10:02] Forseti Svarog: yes, isn't this just a projection of our personalities? sometimes it's an exploration, but that too reflects who we are, sometimes just freed from the confines of societal pressures
[10:03] Komuso Tokugawa: and sometimes it's just art;-)
[10:03] TrajicK Chaplin: True
[10:03] Ethan Therian: Although, regarind both the "game" question and the fantasy vs. extension question, I think it points to a central fallacy of the way we refer to SL. Its right there in the official lingo: Resident.
[10:03] Forseti Svarog: yes but if you aren't interested in art in RL, will you be in SL?
[10:03] Forseti Svarog: go on ethan
[10:04] Pebbles Hannya: Yes, that's a great point Forseti. One of the things that came through in our focus groups and some follow-up questions we asked of survey participants is that people feel they are in some ways even more themselves here freed from those RL constraints.
[10:04] Ethan Therian: How many of you live in the virtual world? I would say none of you. Or me.
[10:04] Ethan Therian: No matter how often we come here, we are tourists, or commuting workers, or some combination or twist of that.
[10:05] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: i think it depends on your level on involvement
[10:05] Pebbles Hannya: Yes, but the avatars representing us here are an extension of our RL selves.
[10:05] TrajicK Chaplin: What world do you mean Ethan.. I currently live in ath TV, Radio, Music Video, Shopping, Movie Night = Dinner world
[10:05] Forseti Svarog: interesting... what defines a tourist? isn't that someone who isn't a member of the community?
[10:05] Forseti Svarog: and while i don't think of SL as one community....
[10:06] Austen Scanlan: Interesting reference for this discussion: Selling To Avatars by Paul Hemp of Harvard Bz Review.
[10:06] Forseti Svarog: yes i don't love that article
[10:06] Znetlady: Well, this is an important issue for entertainment markets/marketing.
[10:06] Znetlady: We have residents and we have visitors/tourists
[10:06] Ethan Therian: Ah, but I didn't say it wasn't a community. I am saying that unless we basically can decant our brains, we live elsewhere.
[10:06] Komuso Tokugawa: we are in the era of mining niche markets
[10:06] Komuso Tokugawa: get used to it
[10:06] Forseti Svarog: lol sure ethan :)
[10:07] Ethan Therian: If you spend 20 hours a day in SL... you are still coming in for socialization, creation, learning, entertainment -- there is a motivator.
[10:07] TrajicK Chaplin: For the survey results how do you see SL changing in the future
[10:07] Pebbles Hannya: But another way to think of the tourism analogy is when we travel to a different place we may be open to different experiences, etc., but it's not like we become an entirely different person.
[10:07] TrajicK Chaplin: From the*
[10:07] Forseti Svarog: and yes znet. For example, when we did the Dean Koontz event, we had some people come into SL for that for the first time and just for that. Making the landing as soft as possible for casual or purpose-driven users is critical
[10:07] Austen Scanlan: Forseti--You don't love that article. Why?
[10:07] Fabio Medby: If I may change subject, if we are the entertainment, I mean, meeting people, what will happen when SL will become easier to use and more mainstream? Will high profile people leave it, like it happened for IRC communities at the end of the Ninenties?
[10:08] Troy McLuhan: Where did they go?
[10:08] Znetlady: Great question Fabio.
[10:08] TrajicK Chaplin: wow thats true Fabio
[10:08] Forseti Svarog: austen -- because I thought it put the "avatar" on this pedestal as something different from the person behind the keyboard. You are still marketing to a human being.
[10:08] Forseti Svarog: when you market to forseti, you market to Giff
[10:09] Komuso Tokugawa: I thought they were all on twitter now....
[10:09] Ethan Therian: Yet they migrated to the web. When the Web left the realm of pure first-adopter communities in the 90's, many believe that was the end. Yet today, in addition to corporate sites, blogs, personal profile pages, and all forms of expression have blossomed.
[10:09] Robbie Kiama: but not to RL |Giff
[10:09] Znetlady: So waht about Fabio's Q.
[10:09] Pebbles Hannya: Actually there is a bit about this at the very end of the report...
[10:09] Forseti Svarog: where is the line robbie? as pebbles says, when I'm on vacation in Vegas, is that not the RL Giff?
[10:09] Forseti Svarog: I'm the one reacting, responding, making decisions
[10:10] Forseti Svarog: the avatar is just my UI
[10:10] Pebbles Hannya: ... One of the things people value about this environment is just spontaneously meeting people with similar interests or with whom they just click...
[10:10] Austen Scanlan: Foresti- what about the popular idea that the avatar represents the alter ego of the person at the keyboard.
[10:10] Robbie Kiama: I really know that people tend to change in "3'rd places"
[10:10] Robbie Kiama: so I think the same applies to SL
[10:10] Pebbles Hannya: ... that is likely to get harder to do just by chance as the community grows and becomes more mainstream...
[10:10] Forseti Svarog: i'm not disagreeing with that -- said that before. But it's still the same person and same psyche
[10:11] JimmyJet Fossett: So perceived anonymity may cause behavior a bit different with less of such
[10:11] Znetlady: And the research supports that Forseti - to a point.
[10:11] Pebbles Hannya: ... I think what will happen is it will lead to more sub-communities within SL, but there could be a lot of tools and technology to help make those spontaneous meetings of like minds easier.
[10:11] Link Pippen: See that all the time.
[10:11] Da Etchegaray: it's what happens in vegas stays in vegas. if you dont use your RL identity, you can be lucy and ethel and do whatever you llike.
[10:11] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: i think this could be beneficial, the people who provide entertainment will have to try harder
[10:11] Ethan Therian: However, as the community becomes larger, it allows for ever more subcommunity. And the whole becomes a more complete world experience.
[10:12] Troy McLuhan: Yes, there really needs to be easier ways for new SL users to find communities that interest them
[10:12] Forseti Svarog: i'm not actually disagreeing with robbie or austen I don't think. I'm just saying there's only one creature making a mental reaction or decision. and that's the person
[10:12] Forseti Svarog: troy- absolutely
[10:12] Forseti Svarog: the information inefficiency in SL is a huge problem
[10:12] Znetlady: Cisco is working on that apparently, Troy.
[10:12] Forseti Svarog: and it's been hard for things to get off the ground
[10:12] Znetlady: Right Smiddy?
[10:12] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: yes its because of the advert mafia
[10:12] Forseti Svarog: look at all the different attempts to do "best places" in SL
[10:12] Ethan Therian: I think its an important point that people in the "third place" as you put it do change behavior. They often become less guarded, more spontanous and experimental.
[10:12] Komuso Tokugawa: whoa....2nd understatement of the year!
[10:12] Forseti Svarog: robbie just launched one
[10:13] Robbie Kiama: oh that's so right Forseti, but that creature is somewhat different here in SL, and we have sometimes to bear that in mind, while creating services for them...
[10:13] Forseti Svarog: absolutely robbie!
[10:13] Pebbles Hannya: And I think just to chime in on the issue of that HBR article... early on a lot of people did speculate that avatars would be idealized or fantasy selves rather than more like real selves. But except for the physical look of the avatar, I really have not seen any empirical evidence for that.
[10:13] Ethan Therian: And we see a similar avatar/person dichotomy for second life.
[10:13] Komuso Tokugawa: you should look at Kaneva and their integration of web SNS and Virtual world
[10:14] Link Pippen: I've seen GOBS of it.
[10:14] Link Pippen: :)
[10:14] Pebbles Hannya: And most of the evidence we have been gathering in this and other research points the other way. While the correspondence is not perfect, there is a relationship between the avatar and the RL person.
[10:14] JimmyJet Fossett: Also, some SL locations seem to be more than hot 'flavour of the week' locations, and that is I suppose what most businesses catering to consumers seek.
[10:14] Ethan Therian: I agree, Link.
[10:14] Robbie Kiama: oh absolutely Pebbles
[10:14] Link Pippen: I've seen sooooooo many people doing things they'd never do in RL. And not 'pesky' stuff.
[10:15] Pebbles Hannya: Like what Link?
[10:15] Robbie Kiama: that's what I am talking about while Link...
[10:15] Link Pippen: In RL? They'd divorce if they found their husband cheating. (or at least, launch into counseling.)
[10:15] Ethan Therian: The skydiving results particularly point to this, in that people may express an interest in the activity outworld already, but safety and to a lesser degree money considerations prevent them.
[10:15] Ethan Therian: While in SL, this isn't that case.
[10:15] Link Pippen: Here? Many, many are married in RL, and secretly 'married' in SL. See it all the time.
[10:16] Cher Harrington: lol
[10:16] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[10:16] Robbie Kiama: :)
[10:16] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: i got married and divorced within 12 hrs :P
[10:16] Tasia Tonic: I think the connection with the avatar can go deeper than an activity ...sorry to interupt....
[10:16] Cher Harrington: lolllll
[10:16] Forseti Svarog: I agree with robbie and link, but I think the most extreme examples are a minority, and one task is to come up with general conclusions about usage. My argument is that people are freer, less confined in here, more exploratory and braver, but the mainstream isn't being *someone else entirely*
[10:16] Link Pippen: I'd hope.
[10:16] Pebbles Hannya: But I think that gets moreinto the specifics where things like cost, safety, etc. come into play rather than to more general motivations -- what types of things we're drawn to.
[10:16] Forseti Svarog: hi tasia yes I agree
[10:16] Znetlady: So can we step back a second?
[10:17] Link Pippen: I do believe that SL amplifies opportunities that RL doesn't.
[10:17] Tasia Tonic: my entire lifestyle changed...I changed as a Human...help from the creation of my avatar
[10:17] Robbie Kiama: SL broadens them.( for example flying or teleportation)
[10:17] Ethan Therian: I think that it speaks to the fact that we do in SL what we would do outworld but for practical, monetary or other barriers.
[10:17] Pebbles Hannya: Sure Znetlady
[10:17] Ethan Therian: Which is why some become angels in SL, much more altruistic than outworld, and some let their ID rampage out.
[10:18] Znetlady: Can we look broader for a second.
[10:18] Znetlady: We know entertainment works
[10:18] Znetlady: here in SL.
[10:18] Forseti Svarog: *some of it*
[10:18] Znetlady: It is being quite successful.
[10:18] Znetlady: Overall...
[10:18] Znetlady: :-)
[10:18] Fabio Medby: If I may ask you something else, what will happen without gambling? And in your report, have you taken into account sex too, as entertainment?
[10:19] Znetlady: and we've just discussed that motivations are key
[10:19] Znetlady: and learning seems to be a big component of those motivations - what implications does this have for our strategies as business people
[10:19] Znetlady: How do we take this and do something with it?
[10:20] Znetlady: Pebbles?
[10:20] Znetlady: G24k?
[10:20] Forseti Svarog: i find it interesting the stress on learning Linda. what about sheer fun?
[10:20] Ethan Therian: I think it depends on the institution.
[10:20] Link Pippen: Agree.
[10:20] Znetlady: My point is people think learning (broadly defined) is FUN
[10:20] Pebbles Hannya: Well, I think this ties to things we found in the RL Brands report also and a little of our previous discussion. Interactivity here is really important.
[10:21] Komuso Tokugawa: edutainment as a concept has consistantly failed to deliver good product for the last 20 years or so...generally speaking
[10:21] Pebbles Hannya: As Ethan was saying before the passive sorts of stuff just don't really suit this environment either in terms of making the most of the medium or giving people the experiences that they want.
[10:21] Ethan Therian: I think its vital that the learning can be exploration or an idea, skill or even a product...
[10:21] Komuso Tokugawa: so don't go that route...
[10:21] Ethan Therian: but there needs to be alight touch.
[10:21] Pebbles Hannya: That interactivity can be learning things, doing stuff, or being with other people -- or often some combination.
[10:21] G24khamr Goodfellow: I think, in general, virtual worlds are redefining what we consider leisure time.
[10:21] Link Pippen: Agree.
[10:22] G24khamr Goodfellow: is this a meeting, or is this fun? Or both? :-)
[10:22] Tasia Tonic: I agree with that G24
[10:22] Tasia Tonic: for me it is both
[10:22] Tasia Tonic: :)
[10:22] Link Pippen: And offering outlets to many people to, for whatever reasons, have none.
[10:22] G24khamr Goodfellow: technically, I'm "at work" right now :-)
[10:22] Forseti Svarog: well it's fun -- for us :) because we like debating these ideas
[10:22] Ethan Therian: The report supports an idea that the activity and involvement of guests, social or planned, needs to be the focus, with the content naturally integrated into that in a way that doesn't seem forced.
[10:22] JimmyJet Fossett: Both, but think how geographically dispersed we all are. Blows me away!
[10:22] Pebbles Hannya: But maybe that says a lot about the deficiencies of traditional learning -- that it should be a separate things from fun!
[10:23] Forseti Svarog: yes ethan is right. unless you happen to have a really cool topic (like spaceships), you need to do more than present learning in a dry fashion
[10:23] Link Pippen: absolutely.
[10:23] Znetlady: No one can deny that our brains are quite involved here - no matter if we are skiiing or dancing.
[10:23] Ethan Therian: For instance, if we were talking molecular biology, we could cue up a stream about it in SL or do a notecard, but that takes no advantage of the medium.
[10:23] Forseti Svarog: i mean rabid fans will eat up information about their topic, but the masses need to be engaged more
[10:24] Pebbles Hannya: And the learning here is really by doing rather than some of the more passive RL forms.
[10:24] Link Pippen: yes.
[10:24] Forseti Svarog: yes, just repeating a website is a waste of time
[10:24] Fabio Medby: No comments at all about gambling and sex?
[10:24] Ethan Therian: Or... we could have a group activity that requires being able to assemble a molecular chain dimensionally, even make it so that one person could not do it alone or it become unstable.
[10:24] G24khamr Goodfellow: love them both....
[10:24] JimmyJet Fossett: Might the later user base be a bit less sophisticated, tech. savvy, and likely older which may effect change too?
[10:24] Pebbles Hannya: Sorry Fabio -- I saw your previous comment but didn't want to interrupt Znetlady.
[10:24] Forseti Svarog: i was actually wondering how much of "dating" covered romance
[10:25] Znetlady: It looks like we are about to have a rolling restart...
[10:25] Ethan Therian: Gambling is lack of imagination to create something more. I believe that if we can integrate more games that are less passive and more skill-oriented, that would easily displace.
[10:25] Troy McLuhan: A blue box will probably give us a few minutes warning when this sim is about to go down
[10:25] JimmyJet Fossett: Hee, hee, lag cure!
[10:25] Pebbles Hannya: Sex as entertainment would be include in the total times shown before (assuming the person perceived the sex as entertainment), but we didn't ask specifically about frequency of sex for entertainment (in RL or SL) :)
[10:25] Komuso Tokugawa: lol
[10:25] Ethan Therian: And if we can reinforce the reward withouit money, that also is key.
[10:25] Cher Harrington: lol
[10:26] JimmyJet Fossett: Pebbles next 'study' :0
[10:26] Pebbles Hannya: As Forseti mentioned, we did ask specifically about dating in both places.
[10:26] Znetlady: I guess we should start to wrap.
[10:26] Forseti Svarog: i said to a group the other day that porn has been an essential leading indicator in key technologies for a long time. If we didn't have porn in SL, would we be worried?
[10:26] Forseti Svarog: by the way, I personally think that SL is redefining shopping for men as entertainment... something women have understood for a long time
[10:26] Pebbles Hannya blushes
[10:26] Troy McLuhan: Porn wasn't needed to launch Television
[10:26] Link Pippen: hee hee
[10:26] Znetlady: Are there any more questions?
[10:27] Ethan Therian: Porn is actually a very strong technology motivator, traditionally.
[10:27] Cher Harrington: lollllllll
[10:27] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: sony
[10:27] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[10:27] Cher Harrington: laughing too hard
[10:27] Komuso Tokugawa: or radio
[10:27] Forseti Svarog: :D
[10:27] Cher Harrington: :))
[10:27] Link Pippen: Well, I can say my 'nonscientific poll' says that every guy i know - EVERYONE OF THEM - has checked out something sexual related in SL within the 1st day of signing up. :)
[10:27] Komuso Tokugawa: or smoke signals for that matter
[10:27] Fabio Medby: Ethan, I said sex, not porn
[10:27] TrajicK Chaplin: thank you all for your info today
[10:28] Link Pippen: :)
[10:28] Cher Harrington: lolll
[10:28] Znetlady: I'd like to just make one point in this mix as we wind down.
[10:28] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: i never did
[10:28] Forseti Svarog: hahahhaah i'm an exception then Link
[10:28] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: :
[10:28] Pebbles Hannya: But isn't that the thing Link. How many are still doing that after 6 months here?
[10:28] Link Pippen: (same here)
[10:28] Ethan Therian: Yes. But porn is often sex/sexuality with the interpersonal element removed...
[10:28] Robbie Kiama: :)
[10:28] Cher Harrington: LOL
[10:28] Cher Harrington: LOL LOL
[10:28] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[10:28] Ethan Therian: which SL allows in a way VCRs et. all do not.
[10:28] Link Pippen: None.
[10:28] Forseti Svarog: and yes komuso -- that's why i asked it as a question btw
[10:28] Robbie Kiama: we are all exceptions here :D
[10:28] Forseti Svarog: :D
[10:28] Znetlady: :-)
[10:28] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: :D
[10:29] Pebbles Hannya: It's like Lake Woebegone :)
[10:29] Komuso Tokugawa: there is more to entertainment than pron, gambling and watching pixel buts pole dance
[10:29] Forseti Svarog: reminds me of monty python "we are all individuals! (I'm not!)"
[10:29] TrajicK Chaplin: I do have a question
[10:29] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: can i say something
[10:29] Link Pippen: hahahahahaa
[10:29] Forseti Svarog: thank god komuso
[10:29] Znetlady: Trajick?
[10:29] Pebbles Hannya: Sure Hand
[10:29] Znetlady: Go with your question
[10:29] Komuso Tokugawa: the live music community kicks major ass in sl
[10:29] Forseti Svarog: indeed
[10:29] Cher Harrington: does that mean I cant be a Komuso dancer?
[10:29] Komuso Tokugawa: with rergards to community experience
[10:29] Cher Harrington: yes!
[10:29] Link Pippen: i agree. without it, we'd be dead.
[10:29] Komuso Tokugawa: sure thing cher!
[10:30] TrajicK Chaplin: We run an Entertainment Magazine.. what ways do you as a panel feel is the best way to deliver it.. In-world flip mag, website, pdf?
[10:30] Cher Harrington: yes
[10:30] Ethan Therian: Yes. And this comes to a big point: entertainment is doing "well" now perhaps, but we are only on the small edge of what we can do that goes far beyond what we are, even in this tech state.
[10:30] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: im more of a builder, i hate the clubs, i find it tacky, but last night i was at a gig with 70 avatars sitting round listening/watching world music
[10:30] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: was inspiring
[10:30] Znetlady: Anyone want to tak that Q?
[10:30] Troy McLuhan: TrajicK - Do all of the above, and don't forget RSS feeds
[10:30] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: a larger audience than some semipro musicians can hope for at some bars
[10:30] Link Pippen: absolutely. i've had some of the best musical experiences of RL in SL>
[10:30] Pebbles Hannya: Why not all of the above and let each person choose Trajick?
[10:30] Cher Harrington: yes
[10:30] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: i think this is a great way to use the medium
[10:31] TrajicK Chaplin: I wasn't sure
[10:31] TrajicK Chaplin: some people hate pdf
[10:31] Znetlady: Don't forget blogs - that seems to be a major news channel.
[10:31] TrajicK Chaplin: some won't leave sl
[10:31] Robbie Kiama: I do
[10:31] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: perhaps even having sell through for the musicians with CDs etc
[10:31] Ethan Therian: Yes. ANd I would also consider breaking the "magazine" model a little and integrating machinima and interactivity.
[10:31] Forseti Svarog: people are increasingly consuming content in bites however, so if you don't have a blog type format then you'll see a lower readership
[10:31] Pebbles Hannya: Yes, so that's the reason for giving different options.
[10:31] Forseti Svarog: people also like more frequent, smaller updates
[10:31] Ethan Therian: The magazien model is often good for a medium, likethe web, whose central metaphor was print and pages.
[10:32] Znetlady: Ethan - that gets to the heart of media in SL - maybe a topic for another discussion! lol
[10:32] Ethan Therian: :)
[10:32] TrajicK Chaplin: Thank you all.. I need that
[10:32] TrajicK Chaplin: :)
[10:32] Pebbles Hannya: One thing we do know from the research we did for this is reading within world is not that popular.
[10:32] TrajicK Chaplin: Thank pebbles
[10:33] TrajicK Chaplin: THanks*
[10:33] Znetlady: One point that I think we need to stress is that Entertainment is not saturated here - in fact there are underserved needs.
[10:33] Forseti Svarog: there is no decent text input/output mechanism here anyway
[10:33] Forseti Svarog: definitely znet
[10:33] Ethan Therian: I really think we shouldn't fight the medium, but let it flow into its own shape. That means a certain number of dead ends.
[10:33] TrajicK Chaplin: No I've seen the txtrue mags all over
[10:33] Troy McLuhan: Texture mags suck
[10:33] Znetlady: This provides great opportunities to look at motivations for it within our *business* and marketing strategies.
[10:33] Forseti Svarog: actually one could argue the only entertainment area really well established is live music or DJing
[10:34] Ethan Therian: Again, I think this medium still hasn't explored even 1% of what is possible even with current tech.
[10:34] TrajicK Chaplin: lol.. thats how I felt
[10:34] Link Pippen: agree
[10:34] Troy McLuhan: I have to go soon...
[10:34] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: and the speed of the technology is going to increase soon
[10:34] Ethan Therian: And one thing about surveys... they by necessity must break down by asking people what they want...
[10:34] Link Pippen: but some musicians have really begun to take it to the next level.
[10:34] Ethan Therian: based on existing activity.
[10:34] Robbie Kiama: how Link?
[10:34] Znetlady: And to Ethan's point - we can't think of it within established models of delivery.
[10:34] Aegir Giha: hm interesting
[10:34] Ethan Therian: As developers, I think we need to aggressively meet the challenge of delivering what they haven't expressed a desiere for... yet.
[10:35] Znetlady: Indeed.
[10:35] Aegir Giha: sorry I'm late
[10:35] Link Pippen: simulcasting in itunes, for one. the other night? one of our musicians was performing in RL atlanta - with SL audience projected on RL wall of venue. while simulcating in itunes.
[10:35] Link Pippen: crazy.
[10:35] Komuso Tokugawa: that's been done for a long time link
[10:35] Robbie Kiama: nice
[10:35] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: wait till we get the plugs that go in the back of out necks :P
[10:35] Link Pippen: hmm. impressed me.
[10:35] Znetlady: I think we have to wind down now. Some have to leave. We can stay and talk after the panel is released.
[10:35] Robbie Kiama: yeah - I am missing out on these types of events...
[10:35] Znetlady: Can I say a few thanks yous?
[10:36] Komuso Tokugawa: and it's great, also playing from sl to rl gigs the other way
[10:36] Aegir Giha: of course
[10:36] Znetlady: First, thank you to Depo Business Park.
[10:36] Znetlady: Thank you to all the panelists who have taken time out of their nights/days.
[10:36] G24khamr Goodfellow: very interesting discussion, thank you!
[10:36] Znetlady: And thanks so much for all your great comments and insights everyone!!
[10:36] TrajicK Chaplin: Thanks
[10:36] Link Pippen: Thanks!
[10:36] JimmyJet Fossett: Great panel (some real SL leaders here today!), thanks to Znetlady for organizing, and Pebbles Hannya for her great research. Will put a link to event photos taken at the SLBC blog.
[10:36] Aegir Giha: ^^
[10:36] Ethan Therian: Thank you for having me.
[10:36] Znetlady: I will put the transcript up on the blog as well as the slides.
[10:37] Austen Scanlan: Yes, this has been a most illumidating event. Maybe next with VOIP.
[10:37] Joni Rich: Thanks everyone!!!!
[10:37] Troy McLuhan: This was fun
[10:37] Komuso Tokugawa: tyvm
[10:37] Robbie Kiama: Thanks you Znet, and the panelists and everybody speaking, that was refreshing :)
[10:37] Link Pippen: Have a great day, everyone.
[10:37] Cher Harrington: thank you so much :)
[10:37] Znetlady: Please stay and continue the conversation - atl east until the restart.
[10:37] Robbie Kiama: :)
[10:37] Pebbles Hannya: Thanks for coming everyone. Feel free to hand around and chat, or explore our island or the rest of the park. We also have a gallery showing work from members of our research panel just behind you.
[10:37] Robbie Kiama: the axe is comming :)
[10:37] Komuso Tokugawa: we could take bets on when it hits!
[10:37] Znetlady: Pebbles - thanks so much for the briefing!!!
[10:38] Aegir Giha: bets are not allowed lol
[10:38] Ethan Therian: lol
[10:38] Komuso Tokugawa: lol
[10:38] TrajicK Chaplin: Thanks pebbles.. this halps a lot
[10:38] Robbie Kiama: :)
[10:38] Forseti Svarog: it's so hard coming up with general rules about how to approach SL because the last thing you want is to be generic
[10:38] Forseti Svarog: and what works for company X might be a disaster for Y
[10:38] TrajicK Chaplin: helps*
[10:38] Ethan Therian: And what works outworld might -- and probably will -- be a disaster inworld.
[10:38] Aegir Giha: yes, but its not about rules, is it
[10:39] Forseti Svarog: it shouldn't be aegir
[10:39] Forseti Svarog: you'd be amazed at how often we are still approached by people who still just want an island and a destination
[10:39] Forseti Svarog: WE have seen the problems but the broader world has not
[10:39] Forseti Svarog: a lot of education and convincing still going on
[10:40] Fabio Medby: about reading, Pebbles, were you talking about long texts only, or more gnerally, also about notecards or the captions in an exhibition?
[10:40] Robbie Kiama: and that will continuye Giff
[10:40] Forseti Svarog: yes robbie
[10:40] JimmyJet Fossett: Right, about ongoing education, and expectations I would think
[10:40] Ethan Therian: One big issue is getting institutional clients to be daring, and also modulate their approach to work in this medium.
[10:40] Forseti Svarog: yes
[10:40] Ethan Therian: Or try the untried...
[10:40] Forseti Svarog: or to think about focusing on brand rather than product
[10:40] Forseti Svarog: oh the list is endless
[10:40] Robbie Kiama: :)
[10:41] Pebbles Hannya: We asked about reading things like articles, stories, etc. so not notecards, captions or things like that.
[10:41] Aegir Giha: I am sorry I was late, will be transcript be at Znetlady's blog?
[10:41] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: does anyone think people would pay for tickets to music events?
[10:41] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: im not talking fortunes
[10:41] Cher Harrington: where is the link to the blog again, I am sorry
[10:41] TrajicK Chaplin: If not I have it for you Aegir
[10:41] Aegir Giha: tnx
[10:41] Forseti Svarog: you know handmade - people resist that but i think it is possible with the right headliner
[10:41] Ethan Therian: Yes. Or the experience even over the brand in some ways. I'm a big believe that if you help users have an experience that is compelling, and naturally makes sense with your institution's offerings, the positive branding comes naturally.
[10:41] Aegir Giha: yes but they it should be a pay-per-view type of thing.. not a laggy event
[10:41] Pebbles Hannya: Especially if it was somehow tied to more reliable technical performance.
[10:42] Forseti Svarog: yes
[10:42] Cher Harrington: http://freshtakes.typepad.com/sl_communicators/
[10:42] Aegir Giha: yes thank you ^^
[10:42] Ethan Therian: With relatively light. In fact, light works better because it doesn't provide the impression that the only reason you are here is to stuff messages down the guests' gullet.
[10:43] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: i dunno whats that giant house/budweaier coca cola advert sim called
[10:43] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: i was there the other day
[10:43] Komuso Tokugawa: heh..reliable techincal performance! interesting concept
[10:43] Forseti Svarog: komuso I bet has really great thoughts on the pay-for-entertainment issue
[10:43] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: i thought great a giant beer commerical i can fly around in
[10:43] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[10:43] Komuso Tokugawa: it's coming
[10:44] Ethan Therian: If its entertaining enough. I wouldn' necessarily mind, for example, seeing a completely straight faced Real Men of Genius museum, for example.
[10:44] Ethan Therian: Done in high pompous style...
[10:44] Ethan Therian: ...and thus textending the joke into SL.
[10:45] Aegir Giha: hahah
[10:45] Ethan Therian: But I referred to Epcot center. I used to love going to the Living Seas exhibit there. It really provided me with great memories...
[10:45] Ethan Therian: and because of that, even though it was light and not in my face....
[10:45] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: try kaikou splash
[10:45] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: he has a deep sea centre
[10:45] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[10:45] Ethan Therian: 15 years later, I STILL remember that the sponsor was General Dynamics.
[10:46] Ethan Therian: Because they gabve me a satisfying experienc
[10:46] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: yes there are some good ones here
[10:47] Fabio Medby: well, bye all, and thanks for the interesting conference
[10:47] Ethan Therian: I know its almost cliche, but if you haven't gone, Svarog. its really fascinating.
[10:47] Aegir Giha: bye fab
[10:47] Znetlady: Bye Fabio!
[10:47] Znetlady: Thanks for coming.
[10:47] Robbie Kiama: Bye Fabio
[10:47] Ethan Therian: Bye Fabio
[10:48] Forseti Svarog: hey ethan, back
[10:48] Znetlady: The point is though we are involved enough in something like that to *create* a memory.
[10:48] JimmyJet Fossett: Bye Fabio, guess I will also head out. Thanks for the great presentation. Super guests.
[10:49] Komuso Tokugawa: tyvm all
[10:49] Znetlady: I JJ! Thanks for coming.
[10:49] Ethan Therian: Yes. Create a positive memory.
[10:49] Ethan Therian: Bye JJ
[10:49] JimmyJet Fossett: Thanks. Will check out Forseti's OnRez effort :-)
[10:49] Pebbles Hannya: See you JimmyJet
[10:49] Forseti Svarog: hope you like jimmyjet
[10:49] Ethan Therian: That's a great way to put it, Znetlady.
[10:49] Cher Harrington: thank you :)
[10:49] Cher Harrington: will look for it on your blog
[10:49] JimmyJet Fossett: See you Pebbles, again great research!
[10:50] Pebbles Hannya: Thanks :)
[10:50] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: yes its been very enlightening
[10:50] Znetlady: And while I think the term I used "learning" is heavily laden with the "yuck" factor - it is in fact what we want to do - create a memory/attitude/learning of some sort.
[10:50] Forseti Svarog: i was just saying to robbie in IM that one reason why I'm pushing on this notion of avatar and person being linked is that I want to fight a public perception that SL is just for role play
[10:50] Forseti Svarog: which increases the sense of "strange" that alienates SL from the mainstream
[10:50] Znetlady: I agree Forseti.
[10:50] Ethan Therian: I agree. Edutainment, as KT mentioned, is a very applicable concept.
[10:50] Pebbles Hannya: I don't think most of us are good enough at role play to do it convincingly even if we wanted to.
[10:50] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: sl isnt alienated
[10:51] Ethan Therian: :)
[10:51] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: its really high profile at moment
[10:51] Lucinda Bergbahn: hahaha very true Pebbles
[10:51] Forseti Svarog: that's different handmade
[10:51] Znetlady: Oh sure we are - we all role play in RL. lol
[10:51] Forseti Svarog: PR is not cultural acceptance
[10:51] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: gets mentioned on prime time tv in england
[10:51] Ethan Therian: Interestingly, the early web was very "no one knows you are a dog" and had a very strong personal/online dichotomy...
[10:51] Forseti Svarog: and the PR is now doing it's cycle thing and turning a bit ugly
[10:51] Pebbles Hannya: Yes, but not in really major ways. For example, I think people really over-estimate the men pretending to be women here.
[10:51] Forseti Svarog: yes, now on SL you don't know if the dog is a human ;-)
[10:51] Ethan Therian: like now...
[10:52] Pebbles Hannya: And for the most part, I think it's pretty easy to spot those who are.
[10:52] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: ive got a female alt for building womans shoes on
[10:52] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[10:52] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: but she never leaves the house
[10:52] Forseti Svarog: yes i think it's more common in the gaming world than here pebbles
[10:52] Ethan Therian: but now, MySpace et. all shows that the web has largely become a means to relentlessly reveal/expose/broadcast yourself to the world.
[10:52] Ethan Therian: for very many.
[10:52] TrajicK Chaplin: true ethan
[10:52] Forseti Svarog: there's a generational change ethan
[10:52] Forseti Svarog: it's really interesting to watch
[10:52] TrajicK Chaplin: but it's becomming oversaturated
[10:52] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: its a new form of mating display
[10:53] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: lol
[10:53] Forseti Svarog: i'm 35... it's amazing to watch how OUT there kids are now
[10:53] TrajicK Chaplin: I'm an artist on Myspace
[10:53] Ethan Therian: I agree... but I also think what's happened is that the web is now normalized, and thus attitudes and behavior change.
[10:53] Forseti Svarog: totally
[10:53] Ethan Therian: I think I see SL going through a similar evolutionary cycle.
[10:53] Pebbles Hannya: I wonder how much they'll regret that later...
[10:53] Ethan Therian: in the future.
[10:53] Znetlady: I think it is an indication that people want to know they "matter"
[10:53] Forseti Svarog: meeting someone through the web you date isn't something to be hidden anymore
[10:53] Pebbles Hannya: ... there are already lots of sources of people having potential employers discover things the potential employee would rather they didn't.
[10:53] Forseti Svarog: lol that was barely english but you get what i mean
[10:53] Aegir Giha: sorry
[10:54] Ethan Therian: Well, as MySpace shows, the pendulum can swing a little too radically in either direciton, lol.
[10:54] Handmadeandroid Zenovka: its really to do with consumerism, and the cult of personality, wanting to be an individual 'im different' syndrome
[10:54] Aegir Giha: I must go.. enjoy your weekends ppls ^_^ttyl
[10:54] Znetlady: Bye Aegir!
[10:54] Pebbles Hannya: Bye Aegir. Thank you for coming.
[10:54] Znetlady: Thanks for coming by!
[10:54] Forseti Svarog: znet, pebbles, and everyone - i have to hop to an SL meeting (Voice!) but thank you and everyone. i had fun and loved the different perspectives
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